#1 ARCHIVED POSTS FROM SPECIAL EDUCATION FOLDER: I NEED AN ADVOCATE FEBRUARY 11, 1995 - JULY 29, 1995 FILE NAME: SPEDADV1.TXT 32 PAGES Subj: Advocate Date: 95-02-11 17:01:52 EDT From: SoTired I recieved a call from the school psychologist a few days ago and she told me I would need an advocate so that the IEP would be written correctly. This has gotten me extremely worried. As of yet I haven't been informed of any of the testing results except that they had no problem deciding that my son does indeed need help. Seems I have to wait another 3-4 weeks for a parents meeting for them to tell me what they have found. How does one go about finding an advocate?Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-11 19:44:35 EDT From: SusanS29 I would call the school psychologist back and ask her, because this is an extraordinary thing for any school employee to do. If she doesn't want to tell you, ask her how one would go about finding an advocate in your community. Do her the courtesy of *not* broadcasting this recommendation as it could get her in trouble. Typically staff members (esp. including school psychologists) do not want advocates at IEPs. My personal experience is that they don't always know as much as they think they do and sometimes have quite biased views. For instance, I saw one "demand" that a child be allowed to use a calculator for all math--in third grade. We managed to convince the parents it was too soon for such an extreme intervention and convinced them to hold the idea in abeyance. We were able to teach the child how to compute with out a calculator, which is a much higher level of functioning in math. At the end of the year we didn't know how far he could go in math, but we did know that rushing to dependence on a calculator would have created an artificial ability ceiling for him. You have plenty of time to sort this out, so interview the advocate carefully and make sure it's a person with a balanced view of education and of your child's needs. If you don't care for the first one, try to find another one, as this person may have a powerful influence both over what kind of help your child has and what kinds of relation you have with the school afterwards. Talk to the psychologist again. It does sound as if she's "on your side."Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-11 22:18:47 EDT From: Snapdraggn I disagree, Susan. It depends on the situation and on the advocate. SoTired, the psychologist may think you need an advocate to help you get the best result for your child at the IEP meeting. Your school district is required by law to maintain a list of agencies where you can get an advocate to assist you. One or more of these advocates may be part of the national "protection and advocacy" system and may be able to assist you without charge. Depending on where you live, there may be others who will advocate for you and your child without charge. Among other things, an advocate can help you understand the whole IEP process so you will be less worried. Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-12 02:56:57 EDT From: Ty Reg This is a tough time for you; but a lot of parents have been there and are willing to provide the information, resources and support you need to participate in team meetings and in helping set up a program that will work best for your son. There is much expertise in this area for whatever problems may arise, and you may also want to check out the keyword disabilities section, either the learning disabilities or general discussion areas. Good luck.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-12 06:08:22 EDT From: SusanS29 "... the psychologist may think you need an advocate to help you get the best result for your child at the IEP meeting." That's what I said, Snapdragon. :) "Your school district is required by law to maintain a list of agencies where you can get an advocate to assist you." Yes. I said to go to the school for suggestions. :)Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-12 11:01:42 EDT From: Ratatat When the disabilities act was enacted in included provisions for each state to maintain an advocacy protection office. We have one in my state in the capitol. I have written them and they sent me good stuff. Maybe you could contact them to find out about local advocacy. I would think that your child's advocate for their IEP would be your child's psychologist. I know my daughter's helped me compile the list of accommodations that would best address my daughter's needs. We have a private psychologist as part of my daughter's assessment team, and she is available to me to review the accommodations at any time. She is working FOR my daughter to help her needs to be met. Do you think you can go to your daughter's psychologist to be your child's advocate?Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-12 13:52:44 EDT From: SusanS29 I'm not going to answer for the parent, but the psychologist here is the *school* psychologist. She is probably already on the team, and may have reasons why she cannot act aggressively in the child's interest. I have been in the situation on occasion where I could not defy the apparent wishes of my supervisor. So I quietly made sure afterwards that the parents understood their right to appeal the diagnosis. Which they did--and won.Subj: Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-12 14:57:25 EDT From: ALauritzen SoTired you live in MO. contact the parent training center in your state I believe there are 2. Ask for their help. Call the Protection & Advocacy in your state. Call any of the disability organizations especially the ARC they can direct you to help. You did not indicate your child's disability, but any or all of the above can help. If all else fails call your State Dept. of Education. Anne- a parent that has been around for 19 years dealing with the system. There are alot of us out here that would like to help. Just ask!Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-12 18:06:03 EDT From: SoTired Thanks all for the information. The learning disabilities forum would probably be of a great help if I knew what my son's LD's were. However at this time I have no idea. I have to wait 3-4 weeks to find out what they came up with. My son has a psychiatrist. I don't believe the school psychologist has ever even met my son. His psychiatrist gave the school his views before they even tested my son. And the school is in a panic. Actually the whole district is in a panic. Seems they don't know what to do with my son. So they are dragging things out which just makes me angry. Plus never having had to deal with any of this I am in a quick search of all info so that I can be prepared. All the while dealing with a child that says nothing is wrong with him. Thanks all.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-12 19:20:42 EDT From: Dorot54272 Dear So Tired, Request a copy of your States Special Education Rules and Regulations from the State Dept of Education. Here in Tennessee a parent can request an IEP meeting and one must be held within 10 days. Do you has a copy of your child's educational records. If not, you have the right to a copy of ALL of his records and they must be given to your prior to an IEP meeting.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-12 19:43:15 EDT From: SusanS29 I think you should know that when a diagnosis is complicated they are allowed to defer diagnosis.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-12 20:53:10 EDT From: SoTired SusanS29 I am aware that they can defer it if need be. However I am also aware that they have already come up with their "labels". They are just not telling me what they are. If they tell me then their time line will have to start and they don't want to do that plain and simple. Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-13 11:20:40 EDT From: PwrRang500 Depending what your child's disability/disabilities are. If he is LD, try contacting your LDA . Writing IEP's are hard. Seldom would find anyone that knows how to write one including teachers. I have one advise though, have an independent evaluation done. Children's Hospital of Kings Daughters. A private sector. Have their recommendations implemented into your child's IEP. And you have to become your own child's advocate. Read Federal Regulation-Appendix C-This at least will tell you what compoments your IEP should have and how it should be worded. I hope I can be of some help to you. What ever you do, first contact me before you decide to call a due process hearing or an attorney.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-13 17:06:07 EDT From: SusanS29 The timeline has started whether they tell you or not.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-13 20:45:42 EDT From: JSabo5678 I guess I just need to blow off some steam here with people who know where I'm coming from. My son, age 12, was diagnosed with learning disabilities last June. His problems include visual perception difficulties, auditory memory deficit, fine motor control problems and a specific writing disability. His original IEP was written in June of 1994 in the elementary school. In September of 1994 he started going to sixth grade at the Middle School. It had been determined earlier that it would be in his best interest to place him in mainstreamed classes and give him access to the resource room three days per week. We didn't realize until later into the school year, October, that his IEP was not being followed. When we questioned this, we were told in no uncertain terms by the director of special education in our township that the "regular" classroom teachers are only given the cover page of the IEP and not the whole document. Adam's teachers met with us as a team in October, where we were told that he was a wonderful little boy who never caused any problems, and why did we think that all this was such a big deal? We were also told that Adam's IEP was written for the elementary school and could not possibly be followed at the Middle School level. We requested and OT and speech evaluation (fine motor problem and stuttering), and also requested that another IEP be written. We wanted it to be more specific. We went to the IEP meeting, at which time we were handed an IEP which was already written. We rejected it and requested another meeting. We told them that we wanted an IEP written for our child. They(school officials) looked at us as though we were nuts. Must be an unheard of concept. At the next IEP meeting we agreed on some things and wrote a new IEP. We realize now that this IEP was a big mistake. After being on line and reading more about LD and IEP's, we realize that we were schmoozed once again. There were several valid things, though, in the IEP. One of them was adaptation for tests, and placing Adam in SE for language arts and math, two subjects in which he was experiencing problems. He has a problem with reading comprehension. When one of Adam's mainstream teachers did not give Adam an adapted test or send him to the resource room for one, we questioned him. He responded in writing telling us that he did not have to legally follow the IEP. It was only for SE teachers!!! We've dealt with him and enlightened him to educational law. Some of the other things included in this IEP dealt with his total lack of organizational skills and his auditory memory deficit. We do our best to see that he is organized and has everything he needs when he leaves the house in the morning, unfor- tunatly he forgets to turn in his homework assignments. We recently went to a parent/teacher conference where we were told that maybe it would be a good idea to punish him by giving him detention if he is dis- organized or if he forgets to turn in his homework!!!!! Maybe this is a new method, punishing for disabilities. If you are blind, and you "won't" read what is on the blackboard, you go to the principal's office. Just because my child's disability doesn't show, does not mean it isn't there. What is wrong with these people? Adam is also the victim of "dumping". We found out that all the kids in the LD class are doing the same thing. Isn't it great that they found kids with exactly the same problems and needs and put them in the same class. His language arts teacher does not know what to do if there is something to do with reading and writing that he just doesn't comprehend, so she gives him an "F". Makes sense to me. We are at our wits end. We know that it's time to get an advocate, or is it time to just start due process. We know that our school district is not capable of handling LD children. It's been proven time and time again. We also know that there are excellent private schools for the learning disabled in our area (suburban Philadelphia). Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-13 22:14:07 EDT From: SusanS29 Well, you can sit back and take this or not, as you wish... There are appeals processes. Document *everything* that happens. I fyou have a phone call, write them up into notes and send them to whoever you talked to "as confirmation of our conversation." Then they can't say "They didn't say that." (grin) You do the same thing with any meetings. You go through the appeal process, and if all fails, you file a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights. You'll win, and it's both fast and cheap. Meanwhile,*you* photocopy your son's IEP and give it to all his teachers. You are entitled to release this information to anyone you choose to. You don't have to take this.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-14 01:08:43 EDT From: Elbimonroe SoTired: You've already gotten lots of good advice. To interact with other parents, look for a local Learning Disabilities Association or ChADD (children and adults with attetnition deficit disorder.) Even if your son's problem is totally different than these, there will be parents who have experience with IEPs at both places. I have been both a parent and a professional at IEPs and let me assure you it is nerve wracking from both sides of the fence. You know more about your child than anyone else there. You deserve to be heard and your concerns deserve to be considered. Also you will always be a parent to your child. For whatever reason you need assistance from the school professionals to assist you in raising your child right now, but you will live with consequences of the choices made this year, not them. Good luck.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-14 05:01:12 EDT From: CATHGR8 I had great luck in finding out about Protection and Advocacy on AOL. When the school stonewalled me yet again, I called them and ran my position by their attorney over the phone. She supported it, which alone helped me a lot! And she referred me to exact pages to refer to in my letter, from their Special Education Rights and Responsibilities Handbook. She told me to copy her on my letter. Lo and behold, within 1 hour of delivery I had heard from the school psychologist finally agreeing to retest for a new IEP, followed by a call from the principal, and a confirming letter the next day. Sometimes that's all it takes. Also, she told me to request a copy of the test results before the IEP. This may help if you are in the dark as to what they found, and gives you a chance to go over them with your own psychologist or with an advocate beforehand. You don't have to have them present or use them to gain an advantage, they can just help you feel confident about your position and that makes you a better advocate.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-14 20:34:50 EDT From: Benjbutch This past week I have been exposed to the term IEP with regards to my stepson. I have looked over his files from school, and rather than progressing with his IEP, they are actually moving backwards. I believe there is a good chance that he is dyslexic, yet his SE teacher, when I asked her if he had been tested for this, told me there is no such thing. Although I am not a teacher, I have enough experience to know that this is not true.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-14 22:51:35 EDT From: STR8NM1 All the advice is okay so far, but you need a lawyer. We are going thru the same thing here. Attorneys are trained to cut thru the crap and in many states, mine included, if you win the case or appeal, the school district must refund the $ back to you. Do not get into a do it yourself project . . . it is your child's future at stake!!!! The school board wants to keep their budget expenses down, sorry, but the fact is that they are more interested in the money part than the help part. Good Luck . . . you are not alone!!!Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-15 11:29:57 EDT From: SusanS29 "I believe there is a good chance that he is dyslexic, yet his SE teacher, when I asked her if he had been tested for this, told me there is no such thing. " Actually, that's true, Ben. There are learning problems, but saying a child "has dyslexia" is like saying "he seems to be sick." A child who "seems to be sick" could have a slight cold or meningitis." Dyslexia is a useless term. If you've just been exposed to the term "IEP" and don't understand the full range of reading problems yet, I think it's too soon for you to be assuming they aren't going to help this child. Neither the problems nor the solutions are as simple as most people think they are.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-15 11:31:39 EDT From: SusanS29 Personally I would not jump to a lawyer. If you lose, the school district *will not* reimburse you. I recommend to people that they 1) work through the system in place 2) go to the Office of Civil Rights (fast, and no lawyers) and then you still have the option of legal action. Legal action is highly confrontational as well as expensive and slow. You could go through all this and not get a result for your child for four years or more.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-15 15:16:10 EDT From: JSabo5678 Where is the best place to find an advocate? I have called "Pennsylvania Protection and Advocacy", but the people they have put me in touch with are unreachable. Where do I turn from here? Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-15 15:29:11 EDT From: PwrRang500 State Department?Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-15 18:48:52 EDT From: Ratatat Get back to the Protection and Advocacy people and tell them their reference is unreachable. Also ask them to send you a Civil Right Complaint Form.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-15 18:56:04 EDT From: Ratatat RE: Dyslexia. Susan, I don't want to contradict you, but don't different professionals use different terms? Some do use the "label" dyslexia to define several processing deficits? Doesn't Hollowell characterize himself as having ADD and dyslexia? Could the Orton Dyslexia Society be of help to this person? Their number is 1-800-222-3123. Personally, I would go right to the Civil Rights Office and start proceedings.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-16 16:46:37 EDT From: JSabo5678 Just a note : Pennsylvania Protection and Advocacy called me back to tell me that they had given me phone numbers which were wrong. I did reach an advocate in Pennsylvania who is also the local PIN contact. We made some good progress in deciding how to proceed. We are collecting all our information and suggestions and will reconvene the IEP shortly. Wait till they see how specific this IEP will be!Subj: Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-02-16 18:06:26 EDT From: Kdee I have rejected a portion on my son's Ed Plan because the Goals and Objectives for remedial reading were not contained in the Plan. They have since been put in. The Sped Department has given me the origional signature slip to sign. (The one which stated that I rejected in part). They told me to go ahead and sign in the area where it says approve plan in full. Now I want to add a few more modifications to the plan. One of the modifications I want put in reads: If these services are not met then my son will go to another school at the expense of the school. My question is since I am adding modiciations should I reject this plan to get the modiciations put in or approve this plan. What is the next move on the Sped. part. They really have been giving me the run around since November. The school does not supply remedial reading and has no intentions of doing so. I have filed a complaint with DOE. Have talked with legal advocates. Feeling really stuck now. Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-16 18:47:34 EDT From: SusanS29 "Some do use the "label" dyslexia to define several processing deficits?" That's exactly the problem with it. Yes, Hallowell uses the word "dyslexia." However... he is not an expert on special education. He's a doctor. The parent was talking about special educators, and special educators really don't talk about dyslexia unless someone else uses it and they don't feel like giving a lecture (Grin). This guy was assuming (quite possibly incorrectly) that the person he talked to didn't know what they were talking about. Likely they were pretty well educated. I have a *real* problem with how the Orton Society throws the term "dyslexia" around, so at least I'm being consistent (grin).Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-02-16 18:50:20 EDT From: SusanS29 I don't think you can ask *them* to sign something like that. If the IEP isn't being met, then you sit down and reconvene it. It would actually be against the law to place a child in a public special class or special school based on what you just mapped out. You have to take it one step at a time. First they get a shot. Then you demonstrate *not that they aren't fulfilling the IEP* but that what they do doesn't help your son. *That's* how people have won outplacement at school expense: the school did the best they could, but the child did not progress. As many of you know, I'm a vocal advocate for parent and student rights, but I would not have signed and IEP containing such a statement for my school district.Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-02-16 21:06:57 EDT From: JSabo5678 Quick question: I understand that if the school is following the IEP and doing the best they can, but the child did not progress that people have won outplacement. What about this situation: We have been told point blank by the school district several times, "The things you want in your son's IEP can't be provided in the Middle School". What should our response have been to that. I can usually think on my feet, but this one floored me. I just didn't know how to respond.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-16 22:13:27 EDT From: Ratatat Susan, as usual, I bow to your excellent knowledge of special education. What would we do with out you here???????Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-02-17 09:55:24 EDT From: SusanS29 Middle schools often try to do that. Why don't you tell us some of the things they say they "can't provide." There are only two justifications for refusing modifications: 1) The child doesn't need either the modification or modifications to that degree. That would be the equivalent of putting an unbroken limb in a cast when an ace bandage would not only serve, but serve better. 2) The modification doesn't go far enough; the child needs more. The whole point of the IEP is so the special services match your child's need. The child is *not* required to match the program. AND -- the good news -- it's never too late to challenge such a statement. However, I would do it a little differently. I would have a witness on the extension (you do *Not* have to inform them of that, and it's less agressive than taping), and ask them again: "I wanted to make sure I understand... I thought you might do (whatever) with Johnny, but you're saying that kind of support isn't really available at the middle school?" Then they say yes. THEN they reconsider (grin).Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-02-17 09:58:59 EDT From: SusanS29 Well... you'd still be talking about "dyslexia" but not differentiate between reading problems based on language weaknesses vs. those based on auditory processing problems vs. those based on ADD interfering with comprehension vs. those based on ADD interfering with figuring out what was worth remembering vs. those with a memory component vs... well, you get my drift. I hate the word "Dyslexia," but I really snapped (grin) when people started talking about "math dyslexia." Those people still thought reading problems stemmed from reversals, which is sort of like saying you can't walk because you sprained your wrist...Subj: Re:IEP meeting Date: 95-02-17 16:30:28 EDT From: JSabo5678 What exactly are the rules regarding the time of an IEP meeting? Both my husband and I work. We have had to take full days off from work (jobs won't accomodate with half days) to go to IEP meetings.Subj: Re:IEP meeting Date: 95-02-17 19:49:20 EDT From: SusanS29 There aren't hard and fast rules, but generally you cannot require the school staff to stay until 4:30 if, say, school gets out at 3:15, to convene an IEP which may last an hour or more. Generally a school will try to work with you, but since they are bending they will expect you to bend a little-- for instance, they come in 1/2 hour early and you get to work 1/2 hour late. Another option is to schedule them on teacher conference days, but sometimes those days are so packed == and the various people's schedules are so complex on conference days -- that this just isn't guaranteed.Subj: Very Vague Date: 95-02-17 22:17:59 EDT From: JSabo5678 We are in the process of gathering the information we need to reconvene our son's IEP. Today we had a meeting with the reading specialist who did his reading evaluation. While she found many goals he needed to achieve to be a successful reader and writer, when I asked her what kinds of suggestions she could make to his teachers to help him meet his goals her only response was "well, you know your son better than anyone. What would you suggest?". I asked the same question in three different ways, and each time was offered suggestions of things we could do at home. His specific problems involve reading comprehension, inference, predicting outcomes. He has trouble writing in complete sentences, with spelling and punctuation. He is reading on a fourth grade level, while his vocabulary is at a 7th grade level. He tested very highly in coding skills and overall processing speed. Fortunately he loves to read. I know that there must be many ways in which the teachers could try to help him, but how can we know. My feeling right now is that we need to do a private evaluation. Everything on their evaluation is so vague. How can a proper IEP be written from that? Even the psychological eval, which is very complete offers very little in the way of help and remediation. Since their evaluations did not specifically pinpoint ways in which Adam can be helped, don't we have the right to ask them to pay for a private evaluation?Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-02-18 08:09:37 EDT From: JSabo5678 In response to some previous messages: The remark about not being able to accomodate in the Middle School was made to our faces ( my husband's and mine) in a room full of administrators and teachers. (I sure they would all deny having heard it). But there were two of there who did. As to what specifics the IEP asked for: they were things like test adaptations, having a teacher's notes instead of having to take them off the board of from the overhead, getting some extra reinforcement in a particular area when his grade reflected that he just didn't understand what the work was, having the teachers supply some initial guidance in organizational skills, using lined paper, and using graph paper for math. Other things that were on the IEP were suggested by the school psychologist were : extra time for work, less math problems per page, providing him with study guides, short projects or reports on a subject to replace a test. I really liked the last one, because I feel that it teaches the child to do research, organize materials, and write. Studying for a test is just that "studying for the test". It's something you can forget when the test is over. But if you do a report, for instance about hurricanes, at least you have learned something you aren't likely to forget. I still remember some of my high school term papers. And, wow, do you learn some important skills, like how to use the library and how to organize. The other things on the IEP dealt with making the teachers aware of what kinds of ways Adam was affected by some of his disabilities, ie visual perception and short term memory deficit. Just a humorous note here, my son has maintained his sense of humor through all of this. One day he told his father (when he had forgotten to do something), "Hey, dad, you have the same problem I have. Your hard drive isn't too bad, but you need to reboot once in awhile".Subj: Re:Very Vague Date: 95-02-18 10:34:00 EDT From: SusanS29 "His specific problems involve reading comprehension, inference, predicting outcomes." Except for general comprehension, the others are tough things to do, and I don't think anyone should panic over them. You see, if the comprehension is weak, inference and prediction -- which are 100% dependent on comprehension -- will *have* to be weak. It could be no other way. However, that still doesn't solve the problem, because unless your son has a language problem (and he couldn't, or his listening comprehension wouldn't be so high)... *something is causing the comprehension problem!* Comprehension isn't the *problem,* it's the SYMPTOM. To improve his reading, someone has to figure out what keeps him from getting to comprehension, which is the GOAL OF READING. Getting a private evaluation paid for can be tricky. Usually it's paid for when the school district says "This kid is fine and doesn't need help..." then the parents get a private evaluation which finds clear learning disabilities. So they appeal the school's ruling, and *if they win* the district has to pay for the private evaluation. I would suggest that if you live near a university you take him to a university-based reading clinic (any university with a graduate education program is likely to have one). Those kids are tested by eager-beaver grad students who are up on all the latest testing and remediation techniques. They *really like kids.* They write outstanding, detailed reports -- because their grade depends on it (grin). All their work is supervised by some of the best minds in reading in the country. Usually, it's moderately priced. Then you can take *that* report to the school. You might want to enroll him in the university's reading clinic. It's possible that no one at your child's school has the talents necessary-- only the degrees... I say again, the core *symptom* they've identified is comprehension. Now someone must figure out what keeps him from getting to comprehension.Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-02-18 10:38:04 EDT From: SusanS29 What a terrific example! (What a great kid!) Somewhere in all your papers, they were supposed to give you a list of all your rights, the appeal process, etc. Start it now. Do everything in writing, and always set deadlines (we expect a reply within 10 days. Thank you for your time... or whatever). Keep VERY accurate records. If it's in the IEP and they aren't doing those *very* simple things (most of 'em anyway) they ARE in violation. period. If you exhaust all appeals file a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights. They're free (your tax dollars at work); no lawyers allowed and it's fast. It's also far less confrontational than a legal action.Subj: Re:ADVOC/SUSAN Date: 95-02-18 17:06:37 EDT From: BarryNet Thank you for being fair in the advice you are giving. Parenting is emotional and confusing. Most of us are sincerely trying to meet special needs fairly and by the law and district guidelines...but you already know this. Would like to talk to you more. BARRY/NETSubj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-22 15:56:12 EDT From: DEBHEX When I attended my ARD committee meeting (in Houston, TX) to set up the IEP for my son--dyslexic--I took an educational advocate. Our 45 minute meeting ended up taking 2 hours--but I got what I wanted for my son. The key is to know the law to get what you want and that is what an advocate can assist you in doing. I heartily recommend and would be glad to discuss further. GOOD LUCKSubj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-22 15:58:26 EDT From: DEBHEX My district did not even suggest an advocate--I did this on my own. I had a strong belief in the program I wanted my son in and the type of assistance I wanted for him. I presented the advocate as my "friend" and not as an educational advocate. They were more concerned with whether or not the advocate was an attorney. If you don't stand your ground and have goals for the session you will receive for your child just what THEY want to give your child.Subj: Re: IEP Date: 95-02-22 16:07:38 EDT From: DEBHEX In Texas--Humble Independent School District--the Special Ed Rights booklet states that you can "tape" the proceedings. You do need to advise that you are going to do this. THIS IS ONE OF YOUR RIGHTSSubj: Special Ed:School Retaliation Date: 95-02-23 14:08:57 EDT From: Emu95 Watch the Pr. William V. Coder Case in Manasses Va. Parents & Taxpayers are being victemized by a system that is out-of-control. Where is the protection of IDEA & Section 504?Subj: Re:Special Ed:School Retaliation Date: 95-02-23 16:06:59 EDT From: SusanS29 Emu, details please!!Subj: NEW IEP Date: 95-02-25 21:11:27 EDT From: GHERMY I live in CA. My son is overdue for an IEP we were supposed to do one in Nov. 1994. I have not pressed for one because I wanted to see how he would adjust to his new situation. The last IEP they ti write him out of the SDC category. In discussing him with a speech specialist she told me she was not aware he was diagnosed add. I want a new IEP but need help on how to ask for one and how to keep him in the program he is currently in. He is very successful where he is now. Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-02-28 13:53:58 EDT From: NoHorse If you live near a University you might try professors in the special education program. If there is a parent group in any of the special education areas, i.e., mental retardation, learning disabilities, emotionally disturbed (you might find a lot of different names for these groups such as EDBD, SLBP, and others) someone in that group should be able to help you find an advocate. Make certain your advocate is KNOWLEDGEABLE about special education, state law related to education, and current educational practices. A competent advocate can assure you get what you are entitled to receive and provide counsel, much as an attorney would do if you hired one for your protection. Good luck in your quest. Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-03-02 00:55:01 EDT From: Alexand121 HELP!!!!!!!!!!! WE LIVE IN AUSTELL-COBB COUNTY-GEORGIA AND ARE SEEKING AN ADVOCATE, ADVICE, ETC. RE:THE ABSOLUTE DISREGARD OF THE COUNTIES/STATE/FEDERAL LAWS REGARDING SPECIAL ED. AND RELATED SERVICES FOR ADHD KIDS. WE HAVE AN 11 YEAR OLD WHO WAS DIAGNOSED IN 1991. TO DATE SHE HAS RECEIVED NO SERVICES NOR HAS SHE BEEN EVALUATED APPROPRIATELY TO DETERMINE THE IMPACT THE ADHD .WE HAVE REPEATLY REQUESTED, FOLLOWING ALL THE REQUIREMENTS AS SPELLED OUT IN PL 94-142,SECTION 504, AND ADA.WE WERE INFORMED YESTERDAY THAT OUR KID WOULD HAVE A PSYCOLOGICAL EVAL. TODAY. (3/1/95) WE STOPPED HER FROM TAKING HER MEDS(DEXADRINE) SO THAT WE WOULD HAVE AN ACCURATE EVAL. WE FOUND OUT AT 4:30 TODAY (FROM OUR KID) THAT NOT ONLY WAS SHE NOT TESTED BUT SHE ALSO RECEIVED ONE DAY OF IN SCHOOL SUSPENSION BECAUSE OF AN IMPULSIVE ACT. NOT!!!!!!!!!!! WE ARE INFORMED RE: ADHD, ARE MEMBERS OF C.H.A.D.D.,PARTICIPATE IN THERAPY AND HAVE DONE EVERYTHING WE KNOW TO DO....THEY ARE NOT MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE LAW AND WE HAVE GONE AS FAR AS THE STATE OFFICE WITH NO SOLUTIONS. PLEASE CAN ANYONE WHO LIVES HERE HELP US.WE ARE IN THE METRO ATLANTA AREA. THANKS TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-03-02 08:21:50 EDT From: Ratatat Sounds like it is time to file a Civil Right complaint. You can get the form from the Protection and Advocacy office in your state - usually located in the capitol. This office is federally mandated to exist to help parents with the IDEA. Other than that, call the Department of Justice - this is there territory.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-03-02 23:01:10 EDT From: ZANNEFIELD Have you thought of hiring an attorney and bringing a civil action suit in circuit court against the school district, and the state board of education?Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-03-10 13:15:20 EDT From: Suziclix I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH SusanS29. Write down everything everyone says. When they said it, and under what context. Don't trust the school totally. I wish I had a tape recorder when the princepal of my son's school suggested that WE have our son Bakeracted after thier attempt to Bakeract him failed. They called the police on my 5 year old, 34 pound son when he went into a really bad rage at school. Granted, he's got the strength of a 10 year old when he goes into one these rages, but the fact that they called the police first, then us, and fully intened to have him hospitalized. Fortunatly or unfortunatly, I'm still not sure, my son calmed down before the police had arrived and could not be taken in costody because the officer did not witness it. Now to get back to my point, the princepal talked with my husband and I as soon as we got there, told us what she had done. She said by Bakeracting him he would get 72 hours of FREE observation and evaluation. Then told us to have him Bakeracted. We have no insurance. 3 days of FREE help sounded real good. Especially since the first day of school we requested that our son be on the child study. And very, very little was done before this particular incident happened. Needless to say, we listened to our princepal and had our son hospitalized. They kept him not 3 days but 8 days. Yes we finally got him officially diagnosed as ADHD, but we already knew that and it cost us close to 10,000 dollars.And the school was let off the hook so to speak to diagnosing. 3 days free by Baker acting him, bologna, everybody laughed at us . The hospital laughed at us. An attorney laughed at us. The school pay for it, HA! Lesson to be learned... The schools don't know everything or they'll politely lie to you. The attorney was the one that turned us the right direction for an advocate. She could only help make sure his rights were taken care of educationally, but could only suggest a lawyer for money problem.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-03-11 09:49:42 EDT From: DSQUAREDS Hi! PwrRang500! I finally made it here. Ifeel like I'll never find my way around. See ya! DSQUAREDSSubj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-03-17 22:18:53 EDT From: KLEMAL PEP Parents Educating Parents have advocates. They are located at the ARC (American Retarded Citizens?) in Marietta. They help children with disabilities, not just retardation. They helped us emotionally and told us our legal rights and were willing to go to the IEP if it was needed.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-03-23 23:09:00 EDT From: J2ja There are provisions within the department of Education, Office of Civil Rights that can help many of the parents fighting the battle of Section 504, Rehabilitation Act of 1973 - specifically in dealing with children with ADD/ADHD. As we all know "they don't have a real problem". That what was meant to be entirely sarcastic since I have one child diagnosed ADHD and one that has been exhibiting symptoms of ADHD. Ther are regional offices throughout the country - SPECIFICALLY in Atlanta. A wonderful book I found in most book stores is "Negotiating the Special Education Maze - A Guide for Parents and Teachers" - this book lists regional EO offices and other addresses of personal interest. There are many agencies and advocate groups which have experienced lawyers that will take on the system free of charge or at a greatly reduced cost. These agencies can be difficult to locate but, the state bar association can direct you towards some helpful lawyers. Most of the lawyers I found dealing with disabled childre have children themselves that are disabled. Good luck and DO NOT give in to the beaurocratical jerks in the school system.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-03-24 22:14:31 EDT From: StanySpeak Dear Sotired: contact your parent resource center or SELPA office (special education local planning area and ask them for your "Parent' Rights Handbook". You have a right to your child's records a.s.a.p. You are your child's best advocate. Knowledge is power - the more you know the better you can advocate for him. Avoid Special Ed. placement!Subj: Re:StanySpeak Date: 95-03-25 17:48:14 EDT From: SoTired *Avoid Special Ed. placement!* WHY???? Just an update. The district was holding on to the paperwork just because they could. Seems within all the timelines they have here 150 days can be used before an IEP is actually written. Rather large slice of the school year..don't ya think? Also the child has been in special ed since november so avoiding it was out of the question to begin with it seems. Where is my cave to hide in....this world is just too strange.Subj: Re: We Must Educate Them! Date: 95-03-26 01:15:17 EDT From: NKillebrew Words of Wisdom from Minnesota...It's ugly here, too. My ADHD/SL/ Tourette's Syndrome child was dropped from Special Ed in the transition from elementary to jr. high. His 6th grade teacher predicted he'd never make it and his 7th grade teachers confirmed this with F's. Would you believe he acted out? It took an expulsion, federal court action (read JB vs. SD191 in the IDELR--IDEA Law Reporter), 45 days without school, thousands in INDEPENDENT medical evaluations (don't trust their evals), 30 lost days of mom's work, many tears, etc. but within four months, with the aid of the best special ed attorney in this state (she's very inexpensive), we reached an out-of-court settlement which will help my son receive the education he deserves. He went nine months without an IEP and will have to repeat 7th grade. You should know that he was assigned an "escort" in his school of 1300 children. Public lynching still exists--in the north even! Take this bull by the horns, learn your rights, push your issues, and teach them what it is they should be doing because many state departments are inadequately staffed. Our's just underwent federal monitoring and was found to be non-compliant in five key areas (one was overrepresentation/ misrepresentation in the EBD class). Our Independent Parent Advocacy Group (IPAG) is comprised of veterans of the Special Education War. We're working at the legislative level now to kill anti-special ed "safe schools" legislation! Yes, SoTired, it's a very strange world but we can change it with hard work and dedication! Rest up!Subj: preschooler Date: 95-03-27 02:05:03 EDT From: JulieDale We are fairly new to the whole world of special ed, and pretty befuddled. Our 4-1/2 year old son has been in special day class since age 3, because of delayed speech and fine motor skills, mainly. He also has had some fears and was somewhat socially tentative, but has made great strides. He loves his preschool and his teacher, but sometimes I worry that he's not making the progress he would if he were in a more "normal" classroom setting. I vacillate between having him so happy and secure where he is now vs. stressing him with a new school but perhaps more stimulation. This past week we took him to a child psychologist to get an evaluation about the fearfulness and other delays. She recommended neurologic psychological testing. She will write a report recommending he have it done, but doubts the school district will pay for it. Is it possible they might, and how do I go about suggesting it. Any time I ask for anything, i.e., occupational therapy for my son, who still has difficulty holding a fork, let alone a pencil, I am pointed to other children in the class who have much more severe handicaps and told that even they don't qualify for occupational therapy. I'm uncertain how to proceed. Any input? Thanks.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-03-30 17:28:58 EDT From: Mcg00 Dear Tired: Much information has been forthcoming. Take it all down, then review it and decide which will work best for your child. The school system wants to be sure that they have all the documentation they need, any pertinent outside reports, and any other information from you before the meeting. They also want you to be a part of the team. Yes... they will discuss your son prior to your meeting, but any decisions about eligibility and program will come through the meetings, and through your team decisions. Make yourself an advocate for your son and what you want for him, not an adversary. Let us know how it goes.....Subj: Re:preschooler Date: 95-03-30 19:41:36 EDT From: TURN 94 A full evaluation is the responsibility of the school system. If you need more info on how to request in a positive manner contact your Parent Training and Information Center in your state. If you need, I have some training manuals from ours in Texas. Our cost is $12 409-525-2701Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-04-02 13:57:51 EDT From: Keldonia you can't add something like,the district will pay for Educational placement without another meeting being called to address that issue specifically. You can add minor changes that don't drastically the IEP or placement.Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-04-02 14:02:01 EDT From: Keldonia The IEP must be based on the students individual needs. Not on what services and programs are currently available on any campus. I am seeing an increase of principals making decisions at these meetings that are direct violations of IDEA. Contact your state P&A Advocacy office or PTI (Parent Training and Information center). Subj: Re:IEP meeting Date: 95-04-02 14:05:41 EDT From: Keldonia Susan, we have held ARD meetings in the evenings, at parents homes, on Saturdays etc. Our decision to do this has always been based on the situation. The law says at a mutually agreeable time with no timelines for duration. Subj: Re:Advocate in Houston Date: 95-04-02 14:09:15 EDT From: Keldonia Please contact me. We have agrant to network families in Texas and I aminterested in knowing if this advocate was someone associated withthis grant. Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-04-02 14:14:27 EDT From: Keldonia contact The Georgia Parent Support Network 1-800-832-8645Subj: Re:IEP meeting Date: 95-04-02 21:48:46 EDT From: SusanS29 Sure... but you said "mutually agreeable." Many teachers would not agree to an IEP during evenings or weekends, and I really couldn't fault them for that.Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-04-07 13:21:30 EDT From: EStalkflee WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE IEP PROCESS KNOW WHAT YOU ARE FACINGSubj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-04-07 13:28:38 EDT From: EStalkflee WE HAVE A 3 YR OLD PLUS 4 OTHER CHILDREN WHO HAVE NEEDED IEP'S AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER. WE HAD A PROBLEM WITH HEAD START. THEY DO NOT LIKE TO TAKE MOBILITY IMPAIRED CHILDREN. THEY MAKE UP THE MINIMUM 10% BY TAKING SPEECH DELAYED. SO FAR WE HAVE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE SOME GOOD PEOPLE FROM PROJECT HOPE AND THE REGIONAL CENTER HELPING US. IN RELATION TO MIDDLE SCHOOL NOT PROVIDING THE IEP REQUIREMENTS THATS BOLOGNIA. OUR 8TH GRADER HAS A PROBLEM WITH SHORT TERM MEMORY AND WE HAD TO PUSH FOR SOME OF HER CLASSES TO BE ACCOMADATED BUT IT IS WORTH IT.Subj: Medical needs in sp. ed. Date: 95-04-08 13:37:19 EDT From: Garew23 Our family lives in CT. Our youngest of 3 children (4 years old) has CHARGE Association which is an acronym for a combination of birth defects. Our daughter is visually impaired, hearing impaired, heart anomalies, general weakness, swallowing difficulties but is fed by mouth and fluids by gastric tube. Now, picture this. A bright, cognitively aware, prechool child who uses total communication (sign & spoken), will sign her favorite songs, has over 120 signs she uses interactively, walks with the assistance of a Fisher Price lawnmower (assistive technology at it's cost effective best..grin), knows and signs all her colors, counts to 10, will imitate many animals, recognizes and interacts with many familiar people. Now my question. After an extreme amt of effort, we were able to convince a residential school for the deaf to allow attendance in their deaf/special needs program. They make it very clear to us that this program was not intended for deaf-blind children. She has made wonderful strides her first year in preschool and they want her to attend full day. Due to her calorie needs we must access her G-tube for fluids at lunch. The school system will not fund this medical need. Services for the Blind may be able to fund this BUT the school system will not pay upfront to then be reimbursed. Our daughter currently receives nursing care at home while my husband and I are working through "Katie Beckett" Medicaid waiver. They only cover skilled nursing visits in the home. I have learned that efforts are underway to have Medicaid fund these services in the school setting but not as of yet. I have contacted a university law school but we are waiting to see if the local school system can work this issue out. Medicaid currently provides 15 hours of nursing for us. If she were in school full-time she would only require daily 1hour visits. We are very concerned that the opportunity for her to attend full day will be in jeopardy. I have ample documentation of her stamina to attend from her doctors. (she has at last count 8 of them) We fought very hard for her teachers to see the child that we see each day. Her first year has been a learning experience for their staff and administrators alike. I would enjoy hearing from parents with special ed children with healthcare needs. I can't understand how LED's refuse to fund for services that allow children with special healthcare needs to attend school in the least restrictive environment? I would also like to hear any advice which may help. I may also be able to assist someone as my experiences have been challenging as well as rewarding. I don't typically have the time to use AOL. I am close to being computer illiterate! I will look for responses. I hope I can find them!! Thank-you for your kind consideration of this message. garew23Subj: Re:Medical needs in sp. ed. Date: 95-04-09 15:55:20 EDT From: ALauritzen Garew23, you need to call the national parent network on disabilities on Monday morning. Ask for Patty or Larry. Tell them your situation and they can give you names of people to contact for help in your state. In the mean time, contact your special education state department, ask for help. Also your state should have a protection and advocacy service, ask the special education people. Also you have a parent training center in your state. If all else fails call Senator Chris Dodd. He is a very strong advocate for children. But you do need to call the National Parent Network or e-mail them. 1-703-684-6763. or NPND@aol.com. I will fax your message to them so they will have a start. AnneSubj: Re:IEP meeting Date: 95-04-09 19:13:20 EDT From: Keldonia Susan I stated mutually agreeable time and then I clearly followed with "based on the situation" . I guess some districts are more willing to break the perception of the professional and parent role tahn others. We come from a philosophy of "Whatever it Takes" comes from the WrapArounD movement occurring across the country.Subj: Re:Medical needs in sp. ed. Date: 95-04-09 19:18:01 EDT From: Keldonia Garew23, Anne gave you woderful information. There was a catheterization case out of Dallas thet won in the Supreme Court. I have met the mom but I don't the particulars. We won't be back in our office until Thurs. Call 1-800-839-8876. Or you can call Advocacy Inc. in Texas they are our P&A and are the ones who won this monumental case. (I have a copy.)Subj: Re:IEP meeting Date: 95-04-10 09:20:48 EDT From: SusanS29 Yes, of course, Keldonia. Let's not bicker. Circumstances will vary greatly from community to community. Where I live, there are 23 smaller school districts and one larger one within one large geographic area. All are served by an "umbrella" school district which provides special education needs (usually in the local district). Teachers often live 20 miles or more from where they live. We expect the parents to be at the IEP; also the clasroom teacher, the special education teacher likely to receive the child to his or her caseload, and the school counselor at a minimum. Often bringing all these people back to the school can involve 100 travel miles or more. See? I'm not posting *to confront you.* I'm making my comments so that parents will realize that having an IEP after school hours (esp. evenings or weekends) isn't always feasible. If held in the late afternoon or evening, all the people involved have to be able to provide for their own children's safety and well-being at home while they're back at school. In other places the school district may be small and the staffing simpler. It might be *much* easier in those cases. I think parents need to know their rights. It's been my experience (and I'm sure yours also) that most parents don't have any idea how many rights they have in regards to their children's special needs. At the same time, at some point demands do become "extraordinary" and more than the best-meaning school staff can meet. While parents should educate themselves about their rights, I think part of that knowledge needs to be that limits always exist. The only time I've seen IEPs scheduled successfully during the evening have been during parent/teacher conference weeks, where everyone had already cleared their calendar to be at school that night.Subj: Re:IEP meeting Date: 95-04-10 09:22:13 EDT From: SusanS29 "Teachers often live 20 miles or more from where they live." Whoops! Freudian slip! (grin) Should have been "... from where they TEACH." Sorry.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-04-12 21:26:00 EDT From: KENWEITZ just a bit of advice. As a teacher, I am aware of just how much an IEP really does not show what the child will be doing, since IEP's can and sometimes are just carbon copies from one child to the next. As the mom of a disabled child, the IEP frustrates me since I know just what goes on. I think that IEP's have their place, but they are not done correctly. Here in NY we have an agency called Advocates For Children with Special Needs. They are dynamite. Also, most states have an office for advocacy, or something on the order of OMRDD - Office of Mentral Retardation and Developmental Disabilities. Contact them and I am sure that you will find that they are majorly helpful. Also, I believe that most states have some sort of office for advocacy purposes in the state capitols.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-04-12 22:48:41 EDT From: Ratatat Right you are! Every state is supposed to have a Protection and Advocacy Office as part of the IDEA - federal rule that they have it! Ours is located in our state's capital city. People could call information in their capital and get the information.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-04-12 23:59:34 EDT From: ENCINITAS The federal legislation that mandates and funds Protection & Advocacy (P&A) permits each state to establish their own criteria for who P&A can serve with advocacy services. In CA, the criteria excludes most LD and Communicatively Handicapped -- this represents over 80% of the identified (much less unidentified) kids in special ed. In CA, if your kid falls in this largest group of special needs children, you are up a creek without a paddle. There are 600,000 kids in special ed in CA -- 480,000 of them have no legal help available, but that for which the parents can pay privately.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-04-13 07:01:47 EDT From: Ratatat The department of Justice is always available to receive complaints, no?Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-04-13 19:54:35 EDT From: SusanS29 " IEP's can and sometimes are just carbon copies from one child to the next." I worked with a teacher once who wrote the very same IEP for 14 students. She planned to teach them all together also! -- to keep her schedule simple. She had all sorts of reading-related goals -- even for students who were good readers. The supervisor made her re-do them. :)Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-04-16 00:58:28 EDT From: EvTrCh Just to let you all know I am an advocate and have 2 special needs children with varying degrees of needs. Over the past several year I have written my own IEP with great success. All depends how willing the SpEd teacher and the SpEd coordinator works with you. You must be Very demanding and always at the school complaining but eventually they will listen. At least they did for me. I'M from MAss the laws here are a little easier then most E-mail me if you have any questions!!!! Good LuckSubj: Re:Medical needs in sp. ed. Date: 95-04-16 01:06:22 EDT From: EvTrCh in order for your child to go to school she needs Med assist. As far as my state and my district in Mass they have to provide what ever it takes to keep your child in the school However if this is a private school there is a difference. If it is a public school, what ever town you live in MUST provide whatever is necessary to keep your child in that least restrictive environment. Tell them there must be a full time nurse on duty at all times or that is a health hazard for the residential school. Law says they must have one. (public residential?) good luckSubj: Re:preschooler Date: 95-04-16 01:13:28 EDT From: EvTrCh If you haven't done it already request a full CORE specifically OT and any other specifics. Get that report. If nothing shows up ask for an independent eval. School must pay for both. My son recieves OT from the school and has for 6 years. When the OT therapist went out on Maturnity leave no mother complained of delay in service except me thus I recieved an OT my independent contract. Ask your pediatrican for a referral. If you don't have insurance contact your states department of public health for a state health card. If the disabilities are severe apply for SSI through you local social security administration. GOOD LUCKSubj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-04-16 01:21:11 EDT From: EvTrCh contact you department of public health for a state healthcard or if disabiling contact the Social Security office For supplemental income for services for your child. Sue the school for false alocations and emotional damage. above all else don't pay the bill.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-04-16 13:50:19 EDT From: LRich25867 I think that you might try the Education Law center. Also how about an advocate in the form of an adult with a disability who lived to tell about "special ed"Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-04-20 22:05:57 EDT From: DIVECHRIS I'm new to AOL so I just read your message. If you still need assistance you can leave a message on this board.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-04-24 17:02:38 EDT From: SHzoltar I have a friend in the Orlando Fla area who has a son, 4 years old, who has been diagnosed at times: autistic, ADD, LD, etc. He is verbal now, does not show the typical autistic behavior, but my friend needs to make a decision on what type of education she will ask for her son. Is there a group out there that could guide her in the "marginal diagnosis" education opportunities? He is a different sort of child, keeps his own counsel, but from my non-expert point of view his intellectual ability seems to be within the standards for 4 year olds. Any resource would be welcome at this point. Thanks. ShzoltarSubj: Re:Advocater Date: 95-04-24 22:31:07 EDT From: WBYC1 If you are still seeking information you can post a message for me and I will attempt to provide information. I am a special education educator, parent of a SPED student and an educational advocate. Good luck.Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-04-25 17:01:28 EDT From: ALauritzen You might tell your friend to contact the Parent Information and Training Center in Tampa for some help. It is called the Parent Education Network Project. 813-289-1122. Janet Jacoby is the contact person. AnneSubj: Re:Need to learn about advocates Date: 95-05-03 00:01:10 EDT From: LTroudy Hi I am new at all this E mail stuff. I am a special education teacher and have been for 18 years. I am currently tutoring a year old girl with CP and we are just completeing her tiannaul evaluation. She is currently receiving about 1 hour a day of RSP help ( poor at that ) and her WISC # 3 scores were fairly dismal. I work in the district that serves her so am in a bind as to suggestions that I can make. The district is small and only has one self contained class and it has mostly "very low" functioning children or "very hard to handle cases. She is socially very normal and loves her friends teachers and school . I can't imagine her going in there and the thought of her remaining in the regular class is somewhat overwhelming too. ( Performance score 54) The world happens at such a fast pass and auditory processing skills are non exsistant. Mom is very supportive but knows little about " how all this works". Any help on support groups in So. California and how I can get her connected. Any groups working with mild CP? Read all the info on OT and that sure does sound up her alley. She has little visual motor integration. Her handwriting is decent but can't do block designs, picture completion or picture arrangemt at all. ( Scaled scores were 1 or 2 ) Help Please write something. Thanks Laurie in DB Subj: Re:Need to learn about advocates Date: 95-05-03 00:15:27 EDT From: SusanS29 "( Performance score 54)..." When a subset of scores are that extremely low when compared to the verbal scores, using the performance scores is invalid. For instance, the full score *shouldn't even be calculated.* You might as well give the performance section to a blind student and then try to call it valid. Go with the verbal scores. She will need support in the classroom for her perceptual deficiencies, and she's entitled to them, but the parents will probably have to be the ones to fight for her.Subj: Re:Need to learn about advocates Date: 95-05-03 23:11:02 EDT From: LTroudy From Laurie DB Regarding my Cp gal with the 54 performance, they did not calcualte a full scale- and this score was even prorated without coding and picture completion. I have been reading a lot on the message boards about OT and it sounds like some sensory integration work would not be a bad idea if I can get the mom linked to some services that don"t cost her and can be rpovided by the district. I spoke with the district rep today and they are looking at an inclusion program at a near by school which is far better than the RSP at her site and much better than the one SDC class. I think we are only bidding our time and missing out on some key service time in that are a( if we haven't) already. I am searching for some parent groups locally to get her connected to get her empowered with knowledge and names as this area is rather new to me. Thanks for the contact. Subj: Re:Need to learn about advocates Date: 95-05-04 23:56:23 EDT From: Socadream I too, am in So Cal. Have that mother run to TASK (Team of Advocates for Special Kids). the number is1-714-533-8275, they know a LOT!! In addition, give PAI a call (Protection and Advocacy, Inc.) They too, are advocates (No charge), they even have lawyers, if that becomes neccessary. (1-818-546-1631) Good Luck--she's lucky to have an interested teacher.Subj: Re:Need to learn about advocates Date: 95-05-05 12:39:20 EDT From: LTroudy Thanks for the info. I will pass it on to her. She is off to the neurologist today to update . We are going to see what that says. I still would like to see what exactly OT is. If their is anyone on this message board that does OT, could you write and tell me what you do and how do we in the public schools. I am pretty rusty in these areas anymore as my RSP population really doesnt tap in to many outside resources. Subj: Re:Advocate Date: 95-05-07 07:51:59 EDT From: RoseO HI! If you live in New Jersey they have a Parent Information Center, in Teaneck. Ask for Ruth Watson. Other states have this group also. Call your state Board of Education, ask for the special Ed. Dept. They should have a booklet on the Special Ed. laws, read the information like your Bible. Become informed. Go to the Library ask other parents, find out if you have any parent groups in the community. Check hospitals, they have programs for early intervention. Network yourself in your community. If your live in New Jersey, I have a parent advocate in the central - momouth area. By your rights, the school has to send you a copy of the testing, always ask for it in writing. If you have to make copies and send cc to child study team, head of Special services, Principal, Superintendents and Board of Education members if you have to. Start your own parent group. If you can afford it, have your child tested privately. You will have the best profile of your child this was. I have 3 children with learning disabilities, one has finished college, the middle one is in college and the last one will be going to middle school. I just started reading what's on AOL. I can't believe how many people need help. Write to RoseO, I will gladly give you any information I have. Need to know a little more about your needs. Good Luck! Subj: San Diego Advocate Date: 95-05-07 13:33:29 EDT From: Battaile Does anyone know of a good advocate in the San Diego County area?Subj: Re:IEP/ Susan S29 Date: 95-05-10 00:03:06 EDT From: Woodacre Just found this forum and I'm fasinated. My 10 yr. old step-son is full included in the 4th grade and pulled out for 45 minutes 4 times a week for resource help. We had him tested at UCSF Dept. of Behav. Peds. They indicate he needs at least 1 1/2 hours a day of pull-out time. The school said they cannot provide this because the specialist is only part time and doesn't have enough time and they can't afford it. His performance is way below grade level. He is ADHD and does have mild CP which makes writing very difficult for him, he uses a computer when he can. My querstion is we were told that under 504 they are required to provide him with a specialist for 49% ofhis day. Is this true? Can I get a copy of 504 online somewhere? Subj: 504 Date: 95-05-10 00:06:05 EDT From: Woodacre Does anyone know how to get a hold of the 504 law on-line? Is it possible?Subj: Re:504 Date: 95-05-10 07:01:27 EDT From: Ratatat Wood, You should be able to get a copy of the IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Act) and Section 504 from your school district's superintendent's office. Or, try your local public library, or call your state's department of education or department of justics. Also, contact the Protection and Advocacy Office in your state - this office exists to help parents with kids who are being educated with the special laws mentioned above.Subj: Re:504 Date: 95-05-10 09:19:18 EDT From: LindaWalsh You can get a copy from the Department of Justice by calling 202-514-0301 and requesting it. While you're at it, you might request a copy of IDEA too. They send the requested info pretty promptly. Subj: Re:504 Date: 95-05-10 21:12:21 EDT From: LTroudy 504 is all together different from special education laws and does have more loop holes. By law your child is entltled to up to 49% of his time in the RSP program at that point - being in the least restrictive environment. It is not rquired however to be on that site. I am an RSP teacher who worked at three sites during the week, and that was due to the fact that the sites did not have enough students to fund a teacher. Students who needed up to 49% of their day in direct service were moved to another campus. The law says it does have to be provided, not where it is provided. In that 49% it does not have to be pull out time. Collaborative service and support by a special education aide can also count. I have several students who receive 49% of their day with RSP service but are only pulled for 1 hour. The aide works with them, or parent volunteers follow my plans in addition to LSS support. 504 plans are not to overlap with special eductaion, they are to provide support for the student who does not, as a rule qualify for special education services. A child with ADD or ADHD can fall either way, based on parent choice and qualifying data. The child can go in speical ed as Other Health Impaired, if he can not make satisfactory progress in the regular class without the support. Many of the ADD kids often have other hadicapping conditions. Has your child been fully evaluated by the school psychologist to rule in or out any other learning problem? . 504 does not offer this or concern itself much with this. The other disadvantage is most schools are very untrained and unexperienced with 504 so you will be a guinea pig. Special Ed. has a lot of experience behind it. If you need more help with the RSP side of it all write me at L Troudy Subj: Re:Fully included Date: 95-05-10 21:16:26 EDT From: LTroudy My experince of late is that the fully included student gets more of their assignments modified and less direct instruction. I have not seen it real successful from the aspect of growth in reading and language, though socially it is very beneficial. I have also shared these kids with the full inclusion teacher?RSP. The benefit of full inclusion is your not tied to % of time served. Several of the fully included students have opted to go back to RSP for more direct instruction. Keep in mind I have no idea the potential and expectancies of the student we are addressing. Subj: Re:IEP/ Susan S29 Date: 95-05-11 21:14:58 EDT From: SusanS29 "The school said they cannot provide this because the specialist is only part time and doesn't have enough time and they can't afford it..." This is an uacceptable explanation. The child is not required to meet the school's setup; the school is required to meet the student's needs. "My querstion is we were told that under 504 they are required to provide him with a specialist for 49% ofhis day." There is no such requirement that I know of. Do you have CHADD's "EDUCATOR'S MANUAL?" That would be far more helpful to you than a copy of 504.Subj: Re:IEP/ Susan S29 Date: 95-05-12 22:20:24 EDT From: Bre5 I am going to order the CHADD manual, too. My son is going to get 120 minutes a week of special ed. services starting next September, which means the spec. ed. teacher will be in the regular classroom (inclusion team-teaching model) with him and 4 other spec. ed. students for that amount of time per week, not that he will be actually "helped" for that amount of time. I know from experience that it will mostly mean that she checks once in a while to see if he's doing his work, or corrects his paper. He will not get different instruction, which is what I think he needs with his ADHD and auditory processing disorder. I hope this manual will help me figure this out.Subj: Re:IEP/ Susan S29 Date: 95-05-12 22:27:11 EDT From: Ratatat Bre, you will be very happy with the CHADD Educator's Manual. I think it will help clarify many points for you re: what your school's obligations are to your child! Let us know what you think of it!Subj: Re:IEP/ process Date: 95-05-13 00:21:13 EDT From: LTroudy Bre - regarding the # of minutes, that is only a small portion of how the IEP is written. When the present the goals and objectives to you, you do not have to except them. You may go into the meeting stating that you agree with the number of minutes but that you would like a very structured plan of the services that are going to be offered. Not just that assignments will modified to meet the students needs, but HOW they will be modified. Hold firm to specifics. Addressing areas of improvement can be written very specifically : While working for up to 45 minutes a day in the resource classroom the special ed. teacher will provide instruction in %$&^ series and will work in a group of no more than five. Progress will be measured in the following ways 1. ***** 2. ****** Instruction will be provide through direct instruction and etc. Most IEPs that I review are vary vague and non specific. You need to get the teacher to move to provide you with as many specifics as possible. If a child needs to be educated outside the regular classroom, there is a specific reason why and the alternative education that needs to be provided needs to be clearly laid out. I share with my parents what the cause of failure is ( not only the handicapping condition ) but also the current levels of instruction IE: whole language for a child who works best part to whole won't work. I would then write a plan specific to part to whole instruction. Getting a copy of the strengths and weaknesses that were determinded from the WISC or Stanford ( or whatever measure they used ) is very important. Learn as much as you can about the areas and then make sure the childs plan is tailored to those areas. Know your information. I have found as a Resource Teacher that many of my peers know very little about interp. the psych eval. The point of having it was not to determine if your child is smart???? but how he learns and where are the holes that you need to avoid and the CLASSROOM teacher needs to avoid. If the special education teacher can't share with very specifically his plan of attack, thats a red flag. Subj: Re:IEP/ process Date: 95-05-13 10:13:41 EDT From: SusanS29 "I have found as a Resource Teacher that many of my peers know very little about interp. the psych eval. The point of having it was not to determine if your child is smart???? but how he learns and where are the holes that you need to avoid and the CLASSROOM teacher needs to avoid..." AMEN!!! "If the special education teacher can't share with very specifically his plan of attack, thats a red flag. " AMEN again! L Troudy, you sound like an outstanding resource teacher. Can we please clone you? Just step over here to this little transmorphing station... (grin) She's right. A resource teacher should be able to give the *rationale* for the approach she's going to use. It may not work for all sorts of reasons, but anyone who has a *rational* plan can then adjust the plan in the face of realities (maybe intensive phonics instruction seems like a reasonable approach based on the psych eval, but the child had a teacher who treated him harshly during phonics instruction and he's *completely* resistant to it. I have had students who were completely resistant to phonics. Just an example.)Subj: Re:IEP/ process Date: 95-05-13 10:49:51 EDT From: LTroudy In addition to what I shared yesterday regarding the IEP process, it is simply that a process. It is not an iron clad contract. Write into the process monthly conferences between you and the resource teacher and that team becomes more proficient add the regular class teacher. I do not hesitate to ammend my IEP frequently. My parents know that what I go in with is a rough draft and when I say I will work for these hours with this plan, I didn't know that they had song flutes on Tuesday and PE on Wednesday. I have found some programs start off great and and are very slow and systematic in the beginning, but as reading emerges, I want to move out of the snails crawl into a more aggressive program. Changes usually communicate understanding. Not all meetings are called say hey great news , but may share that things are going to take longer than I thought, but I want you to know that, not find out at the end of the year we were years behind the plan. My communication with the parent is vital, the same with the teacher. I am responsible for changing their educational path, but in actuality spend less time with the child than the parent or reg. class teacher. My time better be used wisely ! Subj: Re:SOTIRED Date: 95-05-16 21:07:26 EDT From: JJChopson Contact your state Partners in Policymaking. They train parents of children with disabilities to better advocate for their children. I went through this class in IN and it has really helped a lot. Theres a lot of info you need to be a good advocate and you can learn it after many, many years of 'swimming through the muck' or by finding training. Good Luck Subj: Need help for 11 yr. girl. Date: 95-05-19 10:13:24 EDT From: Cardeza Smart child, but no one seems to be willing to help in Phila., PA school system. Reading and math very low. Child can not become a self sufficent adult with out these skills. Parents, to emotionally involed to get the job done. Thank you, CardezaSubj: Re:Need help for 11 yr. girl. Date: 95-05-19 13:30:46 EDT From: LTroudy A little more inormation would help. What have you aready done within and outside the school district? There are many roads to discover. Let's eliminate the ones the have laready been traveled. Subj: Re: 504 Date: 95-05-23 19:45:20 EDT From: Ty Reg You might want to check the Arc's home page, they have SO MUCH information! Contact mwehmeye@metronet.com, rberkobi@metronet.com for information Please post the address of the WWW page if you learn what it is. Subj: Re:SOTIRED Date: 95-05-25 22:17:45 EDT From: Meloid I've never heard of this group. Is there one in Illinois? I live in a northern suburb of Chicago. Any info will be appreciated.Subj: Mediation Date: 95-06-15 00:03:50 EDT From: Katrina741 I will be going to mediation on Friday June 16, 1995.. School has been found to be in non-compliance with my son's ed plan. I am asking for compensatory services, which they are refusing to give him ( I want tutoring for the summer) They keep telling me he isn't regressing nor will he. I KNOW that but am asking for compensatory. They can't seem to get this through thier heads. Anyway looking for advice for this mediation meeting and any strategy's that may help me get what I need for my son. Subj: Re:Mediation Date: 95-06-15 12:40:26 EDT From: Ratatat Katrina, You meeting is tomorrow...so I don't know if that allows you enough time to do a thorough search for strategies to help you in your meeting. The Protection and Advocacy Office in your state should be able to help you.Subj: Re:Mediation Date: 95-06-16 16:06:51 EDT From: SusanS29 "They keep telling me he isn't regressing nor will he. I KNOW that but am asking for compensatory. They can't seem to get this through thier heads." That's why you need mediation. :) Can you communicate with the mediator ahead of time? If so, tell him or her what you just told us.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-07-02 09:34:44 EDT From: BIMBAMPREZ Wow! I'm in South Fl and it sounds so familiar! You are your child's best advocate, but you need to STUDY - learn about his disabilities, have outside (non partial) testing and learn what the scores mean and how they are influenced by other score, get a copy of the IDEA act and Federal booklets outlining your rights, etc. Show your psychologist the present IEP. I've been dealing with this for 6 years (child is entering 7th grade). TAPE RECORD (recommended by our state advocates organization!) your meetings and then transcribe them immediately. In my town, teachers do not have to attend an IEP meeting using recording devices, and I always invite them to attend, even if they don't participate (just to hear what's being discussed will help them deal with my child in their class). You have the right to be informed as to who attends the meeting prior to the meeting (so you don't walk in with 15 "professional" to your one (self). I always take my tutor and sometimes the psychologist (if his schedule allows). Know your rights as a parent- you have the final say regarding retention, placement, etc. You can also call an IEP meeting anytime you wish, when things need to be modified, added, etc. You can have items in the IEP that require the teachers to ask for homework, to check on the accuracy of what your child has written down for that's day's assignment (we have a very good daily assignment sheet that is checked daily for accuracy and all assignments need to be copied from the board IN WRITING - my child doesn't auditorally process well, so auditory assignments are worthless). If you find an advocate, you need to be sure you all agree. Some advocates may not know the complexity of your individual situation. As much as I know, I am now still involved in controversy...the teachers have threatened me with their own due process! I also keep a phone document in my computer and write down what my conversations were with various School Board reps or school reps after each conversation. If there is an issue of non-compliance of the IEP I fax the issues (keeping judgements out of it - needs to be all factual) to district superintendents, area superintendents, principal, etc. It's a time consuming job, but your child needs your support if they are to be successful. My child's psychologist has advised not to spend so much time on the goals, but the implementation - habilitate the classroom - not necessarily rehabilitate the child - we have a private tutor for that. Try to keep as much pressure off the child as possible. I fax my messages instead of sending a note to school with my daughter. Take the kid out of the process. Hope this helps! Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-07-02 09:49:05 EDT From: BIMBAMPREZ All dyslexic means is a problem having to do with reading. It's a much overused term and not very specific in dealing with the schools. I had that same diagnosis on my daughter 6 years ago, and we've since learned alot. The approach to remediate may very well be based on an Orton Dyslexic approach, but there's other approaches too. I would recommend a speech and language evaluation. In my daughter's case her reading problems stem from an auditory processing deficit and short term memory. Phonics was a DISASTER. By the time she sounded out the first consonant, guessed at the vowel in the middle, and saw the last consonant, she forgot what the first sound was! Instead of struggling with a word and taking "incorrect pictures" of the word in all the wrong ways, give him the word - this allows his brain to take an accurate picture. It's also taken ALOT OF TIME and MANY TUTORS to finally come up with a program that works. Your testing needs to be done first so see where the problems are and again, speech and language testing - not necessarily reading tests. but tests to pinpoint why there is a problem reading. Hope this helped!Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-07-02 09:55:17 EDT From: BIMBAMPREZ "the school does not supply remedial reading" If it's in the IEP as a necessary need for your child, they must supply it! Also, NEVER SIGN OFF ON AN IEP THAT YOU DON'T APPROVE OF! I've been to many IEP meetings where I ask for copies to submit to the psychologist, tutor, etc. prior to my signing. I sign the participation form and note that I'm signing under the premise of not accepting the present form of the IEP of that date. The school won't give you anything they think will cost extra $$, etc., but they need to realize that their district's or teacher's contracts DO NOT SUPERCEDE the Federal IDEA Act - and they hate it when parents know this. I've filed with OCR in Atlanta, and seen things change in one issue. It's frustrating and time consuming, but it's for our kids.Subj: Re:Signing Ed Plan Date: 95-07-02 09:57:52 EDT From: BIMBAMPREZ First you identify the needs - then it's up to them to be sure they are met - not the other way around. My child is in Middle School and it's a constant battle - some of this I've already addressed in other messages if you can find them.Subj: Re:Very Vague Date: 95-07-02 10:04:10 EDT From: BIMBAMPREZ I always have private evaluations - theirs always seem to come out with the answers they want. I have a private tutor and they always try to push all the responsibility onto the home. My last statement to them (at least a dozen times after transcribing the tape) was "How are you going to habilitate the classroom to make my child successful?" She is mainstreamed except for a language class (reading). Also, I've learned with past psychologist that they are good for testing but not good when it comes to how to implement modifications on an IEP. I finally found one, and in concert with the tutor, we know what we need and are in a constant battle to get it. You just need to find the right psychologist that can take it the next step for you.Subj: Re:Need an Advocate Date: 95-07-02 13:14:58 EDT From: SusanS29 " Phonics was a DISASTER. By the time she sounded out the first consonant, guessed at the vowel in the middle, and saw the last consonant, she forgot what the first sound was! " You have described this *so well.* I have taught students like this in my resource room. These kids can learn to read, but not with phonics as the first, main and primary approach.Subj: Beyond Advocacy Date: 95-07-03 01:57:01 EDT From: RAldridge1 Help, help, help! What does one do when they live in a rural area (400 miles from the nearest large city, 80 miles from Eureka) where no agency dare roam (such as Protection & Advocacy), where Office of Civil Rights has done little to nothing, and the district is run by a good ol' boy network of harassing and retaliatory males who don't appreciate a woman who dares to advocate on behalf of their learning disabled child? I have had three Fair Hearings in 18 months and they are still out of compliance. There are no advocates here due to our remoteness. Filing state complaints hasn't helped. Filing with OCR hasn't helped. The district bulldozes its way through the IEP's, controlling how long, what we can discuss, etc. I am trapped!! I can't believe their is no remedy out there somewhere. The educational system is for our children yet it serves the administrators and their salaries. Anyone else fed up and have any ideas?Subj: Re:NEW IEP Date: 95-07-29 23:07:36 EDT From: WMinto BY LAW YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REQUEST AN I.E.P. AND TO MODIFY IT TO MEET HIS NEEDS. CHECH INTO THE SECTION 504 PLAN. THE SCHOOL DISTRICT SHOULD HAVE A COPY TO SEE IF YOUR CHILD IS PROTECTED UNDER THIS. P.S. YOU ALSO HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE PRESENT DURING THE I.E.P. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS CONTACT ME. (WMINTO)